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	<title>Comments on: Name these brands/plants? Name these particles!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on work and life from particle physicists from around the world.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: website</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-72972</link>
		<dc:creator>website</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2012 03:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-72972</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What were the answers to the leaves?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What were the answers to the leaves?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Flip Tanedo</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-67110</link>
		<dc:creator>Flip Tanedo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-67110</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Ed. Yes, the Graviton is a spin-2 particle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ed. Yes, the Graviton is a spin-2 particle.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-67075</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-67075</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[in theory, the graviton has spin?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in theory, the graviton has spin?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Flip Tanedo</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-66769</link>
		<dc:creator>Flip Tanedo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 03:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-66769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Tim, right-handed neutrinos are not part of the Standard Model per se, but the experimental observation of neutrino mass directly implies their existence. For a quick way to see this (depending on your background): a non-zero neutrino mass means that an observer can, in principle, zoom past a neutrino so that it appears to rotate in the opposite way, turning a left-handed neutrino into a right-handed neutrino.  -F]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tim, right-handed neutrinos are not part of the Standard Model per se, but the experimental observation of neutrino mass directly implies their existence. For a quick way to see this (depending on your background): a non-zero neutrino mass means that an observer can, in principle, zoom past a neutrino so that it appears to rotate in the opposite way, turning a left-handed neutrino into a right-handed neutrino.  -F</p>
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		<title>By: Tim MacEachern</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-66761</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim MacEachern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 01:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-66761</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Um, since when are there right-handed neutrinos?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, since when are there right-handed neutrinos?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Flip Tanedo</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-66741</link>
		<dc:creator>Flip Tanedo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 19:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-66741</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Terry, the boxes are called Young tableaux and can be handy when reducing representations of a group; for example, when determining the possible representations of a composite state built out of particles of a given representation. 

A nice place to learn about these in a physics context is the older book by Cheng and Li, &quot;Gauge theory of elementary particle physics,&quot; chapter 4.3. I believe Terning&#039;s &quot;Modern SUSY&quot; also does a bit with Young tableaux. 

You might also get some mileage by looking at textbooks on representations of Lie groups. The book by Georgi comes to mind, as well as the book by Cahn. I suspect more advanced quantum mechanics textbooks may also have good treatments. -F]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Terry, the boxes are called Young tableaux and can be handy when reducing representations of a group; for example, when determining the possible representations of a composite state built out of particles of a given representation. </p>
<p>A nice place to learn about these in a physics context is the older book by Cheng and Li, &#8220;Gauge theory of elementary particle physics,&#8221; chapter 4.3. I believe Terning&#8217;s &#8220;Modern SUSY&#8221; also does a bit with Young tableaux. </p>
<p>You might also get some mileage by looking at textbooks on representations of Lie groups. The book by Georgi comes to mind, as well as the book by Cahn. I suspect more advanced quantum mechanics textbooks may also have good treatments. -F</p>
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		<title>By: terryp</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-66691</link>
		<dc:creator>terryp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 12:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-66691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Where does the identity/box/box-bar notation come from? It&#039;s not something I&#039;ve seen before (e.g. Griffiths, Peskin &amp; Schroeder, Aitchison &amp; Hey).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where does the identity/box/box-bar notation come from? It&#8217;s not something I&#8217;ve seen before (e.g. Griffiths, Peskin &amp; Schroeder, Aitchison &amp; Hey).</p>
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		<title>By: Flip Tanedo</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-66065</link>
		<dc:creator>Flip Tanedo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-66065</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi JP, thanks for the response. 

You&#039;re absolutely right that names have their own importance---as you explain, having a word for an idea separates signal from background. As you say, otherwise &#039;everything is just a tree.&#039; ((This is why people like to believe that Eskimos have &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;hundreds of words for snow&lt;/a&gt;, it &#039;makes sense&#039; that a people who live in such a climate should distinguish between subtle difference in snow and that this should trickle into their language.)) In other words, I agree that [especially in science] the ideas which are given names are important ideas, and further that the scientists who end up learning these names almost always do so because they&#039;re using those ideas.

But this isn&#039;t always the case. I recently learned about a gene that has a delightfully silly name, the Sonic hedgehog gene. I have no idea what it does nor do I appreciate it&#039;s significance and why it deserves a name, but I can happily answer a pub quiz question about a gene named after a famous video game echinoderm. It would be silly of me to say that &quot;ah, I understand the Sonic hedgehog gene.&quot;

Another silly example, suppose I can recite the date in which the Mona Lisa were painted. While this is perhaps useful knowledge for Jeopardy, it says very little on its own without some contextual background of what was going on in this time period.

I think this sort of thing is what Feynman&#039;s anecdote is addressing: he wants to impress upon people that there&#039;s more to appreciating an idea than being able to recite the superficial factoids around it. I don&#039;t think he was talking to scientists when he said this---but rather the general public, who does not necessarily spend their time thinking about their work in the same way that scientists think about theirs. People can grow up watching Jeopardy (or your favorite trivia game in the UK) and think they&#039;re &#039;learning&#039; by memorizing trivia answers, but this sort of knowledge is empty without the context which you write about. And I think Feynman&#039;s purpose was to grab these people by the shoulders a bit and say, &quot;hey, there&#039;s a lot more out there to appreciate than just the superficial information.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi JP, thanks for the response. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right that names have their own importance&#8212;as you explain, having a word for an idea separates signal from background. As you say, otherwise &#8216;everything is just a tree.&#8217; ((This is why people like to believe that Eskimos have <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow" rel="nofollow">hundreds of words for snow</a>, it &#8216;makes sense&#8217; that a people who live in such a climate should distinguish between subtle difference in snow and that this should trickle into their language.)) In other words, I agree that [especially in science] the ideas which are given names are important ideas, and further that the scientists who end up learning these names almost always do so because they&#8217;re using those ideas.</p>
<p>But this isn&#8217;t always the case. I recently learned about a gene that has a delightfully silly name, the Sonic hedgehog gene. I have no idea what it does nor do I appreciate it&#8217;s significance and why it deserves a name, but I can happily answer a pub quiz question about a gene named after a famous video game echinoderm. It would be silly of me to say that &#8220;ah, I understand the Sonic hedgehog gene.&#8221;</p>
<p>Another silly example, suppose I can recite the date in which the Mona Lisa were painted. While this is perhaps useful knowledge for Jeopardy, it says very little on its own without some contextual background of what was going on in this time period.</p>
<p>I think this sort of thing is what Feynman&#8217;s anecdote is addressing: he wants to impress upon people that there&#8217;s more to appreciating an idea than being able to recite the superficial factoids around it. I don&#8217;t think he was talking to scientists when he said this&#8212;but rather the general public, who does not necessarily spend their time thinking about their work in the same way that scientists think about theirs. People can grow up watching Jeopardy (or your favorite trivia game in the UK) and think they&#8217;re &#8216;learning&#8217; by memorizing trivia answers, but this sort of knowledge is empty without the context which you write about. And I think Feynman&#8217;s purpose was to grab these people by the shoulders a bit and say, &#8220;hey, there&#8217;s a lot more out there to appreciate than just the superficial information.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: J Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-66011</link>
		<dc:creator>J Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2012 07:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-66011</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think you should be too hasty about declaring science to be &#039;about&#039; one thing or another. Classification is a necessary part of any scientific endeavour, if you&#039;re going to have even a glimmer of understanding of a diverse world. And it&#039;s not about the names! It&#039;s about being able to make generalisations at the correct level - if everything is just a tree to you, you&#039;re not going to be able to talk about the special properties of the oak.  Even the names are necessary, if you want to actually talk about what you know.  I always found that particular Feynman story rather strange - it seems to be aimed at people who are just interested in knowing the name of something and are willing to stop there, but I&#039;m not sure I&#039;ve ever met such a person. Even the very act of identifying something requires you to have some knowledge of its properties.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you should be too hasty about declaring science to be &#8216;about&#8217; one thing or another. Classification is a necessary part of any scientific endeavour, if you&#8217;re going to have even a glimmer of understanding of a diverse world. And it&#8217;s not about the names! It&#8217;s about being able to make generalisations at the correct level &#8211; if everything is just a tree to you, you&#8217;re not going to be able to talk about the special properties of the oak.  Even the names are necessary, if you want to actually talk about what you know.  I always found that particular Feynman story rather strange &#8211; it seems to be aimed at people who are just interested in knowing the name of something and are willing to stop there, but I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;ve ever met such a person. Even the very act of identifying something requires you to have some knowledge of its properties.</p>
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		<title>By: Flip Tanedo</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-65864</link>
		<dc:creator>Flip Tanedo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 19:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-65864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Phytophyactor---thanks for the comment, and love the username.  I disagree slightly on your final point. While I agree that the particle notation may not carry much significance to those who aren&#039;t in the field, I wanted to convey that the information in the notation carried the &lt;em&gt;science&lt;/em&gt; and that this is different from a name. 

This is the same point that I think you are getting to: to a trained eye, the leaf of a particular plant can tell you a lot about the plant. I&#039;m not in the field, but I know that the aloe vera plants on my window sill store water in their leaves and are able to live in arid environments. But the name of the plant, &quot;aloe vera&quot; doesn&#039;t mean anything in itself. I could go around saying &quot;this plant is aloe vera!&quot; and not appreciate how this plant evolved to survive in a particular environment, for example. 

At any rate, I think we agree that the &lt;em&gt;science&lt;/em&gt; of botany (and particle physics) goes much deeper than being able to recite scientific names, and this was my main point.

A corporate logo is meant to be easily identifiable with a brand name. A scientific idea, on the other hand, is much richer than its label

Thanks for the comment!
Flip]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Phytophyactor&#8212;thanks for the comment, and love the username.  I disagree slightly on your final point. While I agree that the particle notation may not carry much significance to those who aren&#8217;t in the field, I wanted to convey that the information in the notation carried the <em>science</em> and that this is different from a name. </p>
<p>This is the same point that I think you are getting to: to a trained eye, the leaf of a particular plant can tell you a lot about the plant. I&#8217;m not in the field, but I know that the aloe vera plants on my window sill store water in their leaves and are able to live in arid environments. But the name of the plant, &#8220;aloe vera&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean anything in itself. I could go around saying &#8220;this plant is aloe vera!&#8221; and not appreciate how this plant evolved to survive in a particular environment, for example. </p>
<p>At any rate, I think we agree that the <em>science</em> of botany (and particle physics) goes much deeper than being able to recite scientific names, and this was my main point.</p>
<p>A corporate logo is meant to be easily identifiable with a brand name. A scientific idea, on the other hand, is much richer than its label</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment!<br />
Flip</p>
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		<title>By: The Phytophyactor</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-65856</link>
		<dc:creator>The Phytophyactor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-65856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A corporate logo only carries a very small amount of information, and so even crude representations convey the correct message.  However, the plant images as presented are so crudely done, so generalized that they do not carry enough information for even an expert in plant ID to do anything more than guess at the genus (e.g. maybe a maple).  So an accurately illustrated leaf carries way more infomation if you have the experience to perceive it, and that means we have way more knowledge conveyed than just a name. To a botanist, top quark is nothing but a name, so all this example tells you is what subject Feynman studied.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A corporate logo only carries a very small amount of information, and so even crude representations convey the correct message.  However, the plant images as presented are so crudely done, so generalized that they do not carry enough information for even an expert in plant ID to do anything more than guess at the genus (e.g. maybe a maple).  So an accurately illustrated leaf carries way more infomation if you have the experience to perceive it, and that means we have way more knowledge conveyed than just a name. To a botanist, top quark is nothing but a name, so all this example tells you is what subject Feynman studied.</p>
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		<title>By: Filip</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/04/17/name-these-brandsplants-name-these-particles/#comment-65764</link>
		<dc:creator>Filip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 11:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=21970#comment-65764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post, I always admired Feynman and the story about the bird was really revealing when I heard it for the first time. 
An excellent example with &#039;name that particle&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, I always admired Feynman and the story about the bird was really revealing when I heard it for the first time.<br />
An excellent example with &#8216;name that particle&#8217;.</p>
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