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	<title>Comments on: Communicating Science and Its Value, pt. 2</title>
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	<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/08/02/communicating-science-and-its-value-pt-2-2/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on work and life from particle physicists from around the world.</description>
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		<title>By: CAM</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/08/02/communicating-science-and-its-value-pt-2-2/#comment-97596</link>
		<dc:creator>CAM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 05:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=24588#comment-97596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Only the ones afraid to think. I personally found the majority of those to have supplanted reason with religious dogma. Like TV replacing books, it is so much easier to have someone tell you what to think. It takes a special type of person to step outside of the box and go where no person has gone before.My hat is off to all of you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only the ones afraid to think. I personally found the majority of those to have supplanted reason with religious dogma. Like TV replacing books, it is so much easier to have someone tell you what to think. It takes a special type of person to step outside of the box and go where no person has gone before.My hat is off to all of you.</p>
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		<title>By: Glen Mark Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/08/02/communicating-science-and-its-value-pt-2-2/#comment-82536</link>
		<dc:creator>Glen Mark Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=24588#comment-82536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congratulations on the PhD!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations on the PhD!</p>
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		<title>By: Burton DeWilde</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/08/02/communicating-science-and-its-value-pt-2-2/#comment-82506</link>
		<dc:creator>Burton DeWilde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 15:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=24588#comment-82506</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, it sounds like you&#039;ve reduced decision-making from a complicated, multivariate process to a simple binary. It doesn&#039;t work like that. And no, I was not suggesting that scientists need to teach the public how to be and think more like scientists; in fact, that&#039;s not true: the public only needs certain key information to make informed decisions on scientific issues, rather than all the details of the analysis itself.

Your sweeping generalizations about religion and religious scientists don&#039;t agree with my personal experience, but I can&#039;t speak to yours.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, it sounds like you&#8217;ve reduced decision-making from a complicated, multivariate process to a simple binary. It doesn&#8217;t work like that. And no, I was not suggesting that scientists need to teach the public how to be and think more like scientists; in fact, that&#8217;s not true: the public only needs certain key information to make informed decisions on scientific issues, rather than all the details of the analysis itself.</p>
<p>Your sweeping generalizations about religion and religious scientists don&#8217;t agree with my personal experience, but I can&#8217;t speak to yours.</p>
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		<title>By: flashgordon</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/08/02/communicating-science-and-its-value-pt-2-2/#comment-81931</link>
		<dc:creator>flashgordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2012 03:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=24588#comment-81931</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[O.k. suppose you have sixty percent anti-science and forty percent pro-science in a given democracy; guess where they&#039;ll vote for or against anything scientific?  If it&#039;s scientific(evoltion versus creationism), they&#039;ll vote sixty percent against whatever is scientific . . . every time. 

You&#039;re thought is pointing to this mechanistic idea of having some &#039;competent&#039; scientists inform the non-scientists and think that career politician or the sixty percent anti-scientific public to just go &quot;oh, of course, therefore, I&#039;ll vote the scientific way!&quot;  Ah, no, back to the first paragraph. Yes, we need to get people to know and be scientists if we&#039;re ever to have a rational democracy(as oppossed to a disfunctional irrational democracy).  

That&#039;s hard as it is; but, it&#039;s also easier said than done.  The twentieth century alone had more scientists, mathematicians, and engineers in all history; today, we have even more; but, they tend to mix up their science with their anti-science religion(mostly christianity; see 1corinth1, or even Genesis about the tree of life; or Dueteronomy 4 and I do believe 7 where a faction tells the others that they should stop studying the heavens).  Arab religion is generally not anti-science; but, like Taoism that doesn&#039;t understand that one must do experiment/observation and mathemtics to do science, Arab religion doens&#039;t understand that one shouldn&#039;t have all kinds of bogus restrictions on what you can or cannot look at . . . or else they&#039;ll cut your hand off or worse. 

Most religious people today that get a science degree don&#039;t think twice about the dark ages, they don&#039;t know they&#039;re own religion. If they did, well, they usually chose to ignore and anybody pointing it out(I&#039;ve experienced this with a former indian mathematician friend of mine);  people are socially bound up; they&#039;re not going to tell their, sister, mother, daughter, or wife that their religion is bunk!   

The religious who end up in science just turn the principles of science and their religion around to make things &#039;o.k.&#039; There&#039;s nothing one can do; you just point out like in america, that religious discussion is not part of a scientific discussion and end it at that. Note: Kepler, Galileo, and Newton all bent their religion around to make it &#039;o.k.&#039; to do science.  Honestly, I think Kepler most; Galileo and Newton hardly ever mentioned &#039;god.&#039;  If they did, it sounded like they just put the mention of god in their books to shut up the social nazies mouths!(I don&#039;t recall the mention of god in his Two new sciences; Newton only mentions god one time at the end of his Principia).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O.k. suppose you have sixty percent anti-science and forty percent pro-science in a given democracy; guess where they&#8217;ll vote for or against anything scientific?  If it&#8217;s scientific(evoltion versus creationism), they&#8217;ll vote sixty percent against whatever is scientific . . . every time. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re thought is pointing to this mechanistic idea of having some &#8216;competent&#8217; scientists inform the non-scientists and think that career politician or the sixty percent anti-scientific public to just go &#8220;oh, of course, therefore, I&#8217;ll vote the scientific way!&#8221;  Ah, no, back to the first paragraph. Yes, we need to get people to know and be scientists if we&#8217;re ever to have a rational democracy(as oppossed to a disfunctional irrational democracy).  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s hard as it is; but, it&#8217;s also easier said than done.  The twentieth century alone had more scientists, mathematicians, and engineers in all history; today, we have even more; but, they tend to mix up their science with their anti-science religion(mostly christianity; see 1corinth1, or even Genesis about the tree of life; or Dueteronomy 4 and I do believe 7 where a faction tells the others that they should stop studying the heavens).  Arab religion is generally not anti-science; but, like Taoism that doesn&#8217;t understand that one must do experiment/observation and mathemtics to do science, Arab religion doens&#8217;t understand that one shouldn&#8217;t have all kinds of bogus restrictions on what you can or cannot look at . . . or else they&#8217;ll cut your hand off or worse. </p>
<p>Most religious people today that get a science degree don&#8217;t think twice about the dark ages, they don&#8217;t know they&#8217;re own religion. If they did, well, they usually chose to ignore and anybody pointing it out(I&#8217;ve experienced this with a former indian mathematician friend of mine);  people are socially bound up; they&#8217;re not going to tell their, sister, mother, daughter, or wife that their religion is bunk!   </p>
<p>The religious who end up in science just turn the principles of science and their religion around to make things &#8216;o.k.&#8217; There&#8217;s nothing one can do; you just point out like in america, that religious discussion is not part of a scientific discussion and end it at that. Note: Kepler, Galileo, and Newton all bent their religion around to make it &#8216;o.k.&#8217; to do science.  Honestly, I think Kepler most; Galileo and Newton hardly ever mentioned &#8216;god.&#8217;  If they did, it sounded like they just put the mention of god in their books to shut up the social nazies mouths!(I don&#8217;t recall the mention of god in his Two new sciences; Newton only mentions god one time at the end of his Principia).</p>
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		<title>By: Carlo</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/08/02/communicating-science-and-its-value-pt-2-2/#comment-81805</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2012 07:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=24588#comment-81805</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Congrats for your PhD graduation, cheers!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congrats for your PhD graduation, cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Burton DeWilde</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/08/02/communicating-science-and-its-value-pt-2-2/#comment-81690</link>
		<dc:creator>Burton DeWilde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=24588#comment-81690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The paper I linked to provides a nice summary of why the deficit model is incorrect and cites a number of more specific sources. It&#039;s a good read. I agree, it makes intuitive sense that providing people with more knowledge about a scientific issue will lead them to reasonable conclusions about the science, but unfortunately it just doesn&#039;t work that way in real life — hence the common misconception. The example of a panel of climate experts explaining scientific results to Congress is apt: In spite of *even more evidence* to support the consensus view on climate change, many Congresspeople continued or intensified their opposition to this view. It&#039;s not ignorance of the science that fuels their skepticism, it&#039;s ideology, religion, culture... which is exactly my point.

As for your prescription on how to impart knowledge about climate change to someone... Well, your first point is a glittering generality that I would like to but just can&#039;t agree with. Your others, however, are pretty much in line with existing guidelines (that I&#039;ll be discussing in part 3!): stick to the science and stay out of politics, tailor your message and vocabulary to your intended audience, and as much as possible, *engage* the listener in a dialogue rather than talking at them from on high.

Lastly, your comment about more formal education is another seemingly reasonable one, but research shows otherwise: More educated individuals tend to have more highly polarized opinions. The causes of this are, as I understand it, not fully understood, but are under study. I&#039;ll probably mention this in a later post as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The paper I linked to provides a nice summary of why the deficit model is incorrect and cites a number of more specific sources. It&#8217;s a good read. I agree, it makes intuitive sense that providing people with more knowledge about a scientific issue will lead them to reasonable conclusions about the science, but unfortunately it just doesn&#8217;t work that way in real life — hence the common misconception. The example of a panel of climate experts explaining scientific results to Congress is apt: In spite of *even more evidence* to support the consensus view on climate change, many Congresspeople continued or intensified their opposition to this view. It&#8217;s not ignorance of the science that fuels their skepticism, it&#8217;s ideology, religion, culture&#8230; which is exactly my point.</p>
<p>As for your prescription on how to impart knowledge about climate change to someone&#8230; Well, your first point is a glittering generality that I would like to but just can&#8217;t agree with. Your others, however, are pretty much in line with existing guidelines (that I&#8217;ll be discussing in part 3!): stick to the science and stay out of politics, tailor your message and vocabulary to your intended audience, and as much as possible, *engage* the listener in a dialogue rather than talking at them from on high.</p>
<p>Lastly, your comment about more formal education is another seemingly reasonable one, but research shows otherwise: More educated individuals tend to have more highly polarized opinions. The causes of this are, as I understand it, not fully understood, but are under study. I&#8217;ll probably mention this in a later post as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Burton DeWilde</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/08/02/communicating-science-and-its-value-pt-2-2/#comment-81688</link>
		<dc:creator>Burton DeWilde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=24588#comment-81688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cuts in funding for science actually prompted the initial rant... It&#039;s seriously short-sighted policy. Investing in science pays off significantly in the long term, so axing science funding now based on concerns about the national debt is a lose-lose!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cuts in funding for science actually prompted the initial rant&#8230; It&#8217;s seriously short-sighted policy. Investing in science pays off significantly in the long term, so axing science funding now based on concerns about the national debt is a lose-lose!</p>
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		<title>By: Xezlec</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/08/02/communicating-science-and-its-value-pt-2-2/#comment-81623</link>
		<dc:creator>Xezlec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 03:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=24588#comment-81623</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well I&#039;ll need to read that paper.  It sounds like it conflicts with my personal experience, which has been, pretty consistently, that once people become more knowledgeable about a subject, their views become more reasonable.  &quot;A bevy of distinguished climatologists&quot; presenting &quot;overwhelming scientific evidence on climate change before Congress&quot; does not, however, sound anything like making someone more knowledgeable about something.  If I wanted to make someone more knowledgeable about climate change, I would:

1) Choose pretty much anyone except politicians (whose livelihoods depend strongly on ignoring everything except their constituents&#039; views),
2) Talk to them in a sweet, human, and non-threatening way, and mostly about the underlying subject rather than the political conclusions (so that they would be more likely to actually listen to a word I&#039;m saying),
3) Be interesting and engage the audience, and
4) Explain not using &quot;overwhelming scientific evidence&quot;, but plain English and easy-to-understand facts, focusing not on rigor but on simple, common-sense things they can easily verify for themselves.

If we use classrooms as our example of giving people knowledge instead of inaptly-named Congressional &quot;hearings&quot;, I think we do see an effect.  People with a formal education in a subject are definitely less likely to hold extreme, far-from-mainstream views on that subject than people without.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I&#8217;ll need to read that paper.  It sounds like it conflicts with my personal experience, which has been, pretty consistently, that once people become more knowledgeable about a subject, their views become more reasonable.  &#8220;A bevy of distinguished climatologists&#8221; presenting &#8220;overwhelming scientific evidence on climate change before Congress&#8221; does not, however, sound anything like making someone more knowledgeable about something.  If I wanted to make someone more knowledgeable about climate change, I would:</p>
<p>1) Choose pretty much anyone except politicians (whose livelihoods depend strongly on ignoring everything except their constituents&#8217; views),<br />
2) Talk to them in a sweet, human, and non-threatening way, and mostly about the underlying subject rather than the political conclusions (so that they would be more likely to actually listen to a word I&#8217;m saying),<br />
3) Be interesting and engage the audience, and<br />
4) Explain not using &#8220;overwhelming scientific evidence&#8221;, but plain English and easy-to-understand facts, focusing not on rigor but on simple, common-sense things they can easily verify for themselves.</p>
<p>If we use classrooms as our example of giving people knowledge instead of inaptly-named Congressional &#8220;hearings&#8221;, I think we do see an effect.  People with a formal education in a subject are definitely less likely to hold extreme, far-from-mainstream views on that subject than people without.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Truitt</title>
		<link>http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/08/02/communicating-science-and-its-value-pt-2-2/#comment-81595</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Truitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quantumdiaries.org/?p=24588#comment-81595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Keep ranting, we need as many Americans as we can muster ranting that we need science. Science is what made us strong and science will keep us strong. We need more graduates with engineering degrees and more science projects. The government needs to realize this and fund worth while projects not put science under the ax of budget cuts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep ranting, we need as many Americans as we can muster ranting that we need science. Science is what made us strong and science will keep us strong. We need more graduates with engineering degrees and more science projects. The government needs to realize this and fund worth while projects not put science under the ax of budget cuts.</p>
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